A small M8 education for those losing faith.

sere83

It seems to me that a few people are complaining about the delays of the M8 and losing faith when not actually being fully aware of what the M8 is capable of and how it compares to other phones on the market. So here is a few facts to make those who don't know really understand what we are dealing with and why IMO it is definitely worth waiting for. All these facts/figures and specualative comments relate to mobile phones and pda's which are widely available in europe or the US.

1. The M8's processor will be the samsung ARM S3C6410 processor. This processor is so new it has has not gone into mass production yet. It is highly likely that the 2nd generation iphone will use this processor as the 1st gen iphone uses the samsung ARM S3C6400 (the S3C6410 is the new updated version). Maybe this fact may go some way to making people understand part of the reason the M8 has not been released yet.

2. This processor runs at 667Mhz and has advanced video decoding capabilities. It will be without a doubt one of (if not the most) powerful mobile phone processors of any phone widely available in the US or Europe. ( I am not including HTC's 'Advantage' and 'Shift' models as they are not phones but UMPC's). This Chip is 3G capable.

3. Total number of phones widely available in the US and Europe which have.... ( again htc 'shift' and 'advantage' are not includued):

A 3.4 inch 720x480 res multitouch display >>>> 0

A screen size over 3.3 inches >>>>> Apple iphone, very few more (if any)

Multitouch >>>>>> 1 (Apple Iphone)

A 720 x480 or above resolution >>>> 0 (I am aware of) (sony ericsson xperia will have 800x480 but is not avilable yet)

Total number of phones with tv out >>> Nokia N95 and a few more (but still very few)

Total number of phones with usb otg/host >>>> 0 (I am aware of)

Total number of phones with 16gb of nand flash on board >>> 2 I am aware of (apple iphone, Nokia N96)

Total number of phones that can decode full res mpeg 4 at dvd quality (720 x 480) >>> 0

Total number of phones supporting opensource audio and video codecs (out of the box) >>> 0

Total number of phones using a customised Win CE 6.0 interface (not windows mobile) >>> 0

Total number of phones with line out >>> 0 (I am aware of)

As you can see from these statistics the M8 has a number of features many phones simply don't have. It will also be cheaper than most phones in it's category with similar specs. All these reasons lead me to believe the M8 will still be a good option when it is released, unless some groundbreaking device hits the market in the next 4 monthes to trump it (seems highly unlikely).

Hendrik

Phones with all the features you mentioned >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0

Phones with all the features you mentioned when the M8 will be released >>>>>>>>>>>>> hundreds

Strumpa

Very nice information! This makes me feel happy, because I have not bought any other phone yet and this thread helps me wait longer for M8

sere83

haha, would you like to put some money on that?

gkai

Yes, and on a less positive side it also show that Meizu was over-confident when first anouncing the M8, when they though they can achieve the same feature list you mention here with the 6400 processor...I hope they are not over-confident when anouncing the new release date of the M8, but personally before a video of a functioning sample (not prototype) and testing of this in the chinese bbs, I would not trust any release date anymore...

agreed, promising processor, as is the NVidia one. I hope its power consumption is low, did they go to a finer process than the 6400?
imho 3G capable is not interesting though: it is a feature that will not be present on m8 (except some new major delay, but then it will smell more and more vaporware...), and it is not like you will be able to upgrade your phone with a "3G antenna" afterward, isn't it? So processor features which are not implemented in a phone because some supporting hardware/chips is not present should not be mentioned: there is no chance a firmware or OS upgrade activate it later on...

640*480 phones are availble, though (but not common), and it is imho comparable. Current processors are a little bit weak to drive those display, but for static tasks like reading ebook they are great....They are fine for dynamic tasks which do not demand high framerate too, like GPS software....

HTC produced quite a few models with this display size...
The touch and ETen models are a little bit smaller, but this give you a smaller phone too, which is nice. IMHO iPhone is already on the largish side, meizu should be good for me but a smaller screen would not necessarily be bad (if the device is also overall smaller, imho a screen that cover almost all the front side of the phone is the best design, I do not like thumb keyboards)

a small feature imho, one I would exchange for earlier availability in a heartbeat.
in fact I think gesture-based input (with single touch) is more promising...

interresting feature: I would like to be able to output movies on hotel rooms TV while on the move :-)

This one is very interresting, if implemented correctly. Especially if it is full speed usb2 OTG (it seems to be, reading the speclist of the 6410), this would basically add a high-speed bidirectional standard port to the phone, something that is sorely lacking on devices without SDHC slots. Great for USB key, cheap additional storage! :-)

but some come with SD or SDHC card slot. Have you checked the SDcard prices and capacity lately?
I agree with you, I am not bashing the m8 at all cause I still plan to buy one if nothing with a better quality/price ratio and a HVGA or better screen comes out before (I do not want QVGA screen anymore, I have been spoiled by a VGA PDA, now there is no turning back...)
The big problem is that the release date keeps shifting all the time, which make me doubt that it will be shipped at all....or that it deliver the promised feature list if it is, or that it is supported correctly (with firmware update...or opened to get android on it).
Now I agree with you, it is unlikely that in the next 4 month, a comparable device comes out....except the iPhone 2, but it suffer from Apple "total control" philosophy that personally I do not like at all (basically, I prefer to tinker than pay).
I would even go further: I feel that if the m8 is released this year, it will still hold its ground against the competition (that do not progress as fast as everybody tell: look at the hard specs: screen resolution and processor power have been quite stagnant, many new shiny shells but few real changes in the touchscreen devices department....except for the fast increase of onboard flash...Well, given the current price of flash memory, this seems quite normal ).

However, with the multiple delays and silence of Meizu CEO lately (after all the noise around CEBIT), i am not so confident about having a released m8 in 2008 anymore...
If Meizu further delay and is so late than m8 is not special technically anymore (which should happen after the release of 6410, nvidia or similar processors, and WM7 or android), I think it may not be released at all and meizu will probably dissapear outside China...
Basically, it is no big deal for me, it means I will get something else...but unfortunately later and probably at a higher price than I though when the m8 was anounced...

DusL

Well you know that's not entirely true. When the specs were released last year april the cpu was already clearly specified. It was that cpu which proved to be "not good enough", which made them pick this Samsung one. What you say is correct, it just only explains the 2nd half of the total delay.

Which is unfortunatly not the same as having 3G. For the people who are not completely up to date, the first eversion of m8 will be 3G-less with a 3G-version planned for end-2008. Whn comparing the first m8 to other phones one has to keep this in mind, almost all phones have 3G nowadays.

Haha, I know what you're trying to point out as both of them are as bulky as hell. I am however under the impression that you can make a call on them, which makes them both phone and umpc.

Well phones running on a MicroSD SDHC can beat this 16Gb, Sandisk has an 8 gig now and is releasing a 16 gig card in the summerperiod.

You are making it sound like a phone without a cust WinCE is not as good as the m8 with it. So it's not really a statistical feature.

I think we should judge now whether August is a plausible releasedate with begin july as alpha-testing period. And how long it takes for a 3G followup, bacause the m8 now simply doesn't have that feature. If it would really just take them 4 extra months (aug-dec) for the improved 3G version, I wouldn't know who would want to buy the initial one. I mean, if you've already waited 18 months than 4 extra months isn't going to hurt you. First batches tend to have the most bugs anyway.

I do write this post in peace, mind you.

__________________

sere83

This is a good point, however it just shows how inexperienced Meizu are. Meizu are no samsung or apple. For them to produce this type of device msut be unbelievably difficult and should be reflected in the time it actually takes them to make. Their R & D budgets must be so small compared to apple.

It is true many phones have 3G nowadays but I thik the lack of 3G is reflected in the M8's lower price point. I personally don't need 3G yet as I do not have enough money to invest in a data plan right now. It will be something that Meizu really need to implement as soon as the can though after the inital non-3G M8 release, if they stand any chance of selling outside China.

It is true they are phones too but the shift would be classified as a umpc first as it runs vista. The Advantage is in strict terms a phone but it is soo bulky and so expensive no one in their right mind would class it in the same category as the M8. The Advantage in effect needs a category of it's own.

I do definitely prefer sd cards to flash memory soldered to the main board. However the 16gb cards will probably only have been out for a couple of monthes if the M8 comes on time. Also micro sdhc is still quite expensive (especially here in the UK) compared to traditional sdhc and a 16gb card will be a large expense on top of buying a phone itself.

I agree that that haveing a cust WinCe interface is not a feature or necessarily a bonus even. It was more just to illustrate the fact no manufacturer is doing what meizu is attempting. Making a winmo 6 based unit is infinitely easier than customising a whole touch based interface using only a Wince 6.0 foundation.

I think gkai also makes a very good point too >>>

gkai quote: I would even go further: I feel that if the m8 is released this year, it will still hold its ground against the competition (that do not progress as fast as everybody tell: look at the hard specs: screen resolution and processor power have been quite stagnant, many new shiny shells but few real changes in the touchscreen devices department....except for the fast increase of onboard flash...Well, given the current price of flash memory, this seems quite normal ).

After looking into the market more I too think the M8 will still be able to hold it's ground if released around August. As gkai says screen res and processor power have remained pretty stagnant for a long time. It is only recently that a new wave of powerful media capable devices have started to appear.

BobbyQ

haha, calling 2 years a tradition earns respect

midsommer

Well - although I respect that you show some good points, you will have to face the fact, that in four month a phone without 3G, gps, 32 GB, and front camera will have no selling point. There will be (more expencsive) phones of established brands offering more. So no arguments in price will be accepted. A small chinese company offers a well priced phone without anything special. Thats it.

You will say: "Hey look the price". I will respond: "Well, that is due to the missing GPS, TV-features, missing expansion slot, and the small capacity".

I cannot understand why everybody is so fond of the screen? What is the bigger idea? I cannot see me copying a full DVD (4.2 GB) on it only to fill the screen! I have a iPod Touch 32 GB and I hardly can get 4 - 5 (shrunken to 500 MB) movies on it! Movies soon will be on Blueray, so I will have to shrink them - but due to the small storage (16 GB are not much!), I will shrink them to the ipod size (500 GB) - so the screen of an iPod Touch is fine! Even more: on each Blueray there will be a iPhone shrunken version, and if you buy a movie online, you can buy them formated for the Ipod size.

I my point of you, MEIZU did a big mistake to stay on the screen as it might be the main reason, why they have to shift the release date to a time, noone is interested in the phone anymore.

gkai

Maybe...and if it is the case and the price is not too high, I will buy it...I am not as optimistic as you, though. In 4 month, I expect an Iphone 2.0, updating the current iphone only by including 3G and front camera*.....and that's all, no other competition. Imho, the bulk of the competition will come in 2009, not earlier...
It will take at least this amount of time before the new generation of processors trickle down to the small manufaturers (chinese clones), and the big brands will not yet release an open device, they are too happy for now to sell expensive locked-up gadgets via carrier contracts. I expect HTC, Acer/Eten and the likes to be the first to release real competiton for the iPhone, as sexier PDA phones for broadening the current business-oriented market. And I expect things to really heat up once android is available, and microsoft try to react.
You are perfectly right...if you consider using your screen mainly for watching movies.
It is not my main usage, just a nice to have (I do not like to watch movie on such small screens anyway, so it would be restricted to the travels when onboard entertainement system is not up to the task (which is a very rare occurence in modern planes, so only for trains or buses I guess), or on the move to check my own camcoder footages).

For ebook reading, or GPS maps, or web browsing; basically anything that involves reading or looking at static content, a high-DPI screen is a huge advantage, if you have reasonably good eyes. It makes reading much more relaxing, and allows to fit a lot on small screens, being a map or a webpage...
I use my PDA for ebooks, offline wikipedia, dictionaries and GPS navigation. I come from a QVGA (ipaq), saw HVGA screens (palm, iPhone) and now have a VGA (acer).
Given this experience, there is NO WAY I go back to QVGA. HVGA maybe if the device is otherwise outstanding...But a VGA+ screen is almost a must have...

* Maybe, also, an internal GPS, but this would come as quite surprising for me. It would be a good surprise though, maybe I would buy an iPhone 2.0 then, depending on the state of developper community and the GPS application included...But I expect 32 GB to stay the maximum included memory for a looong time, well into 2009...