J.Wong reply on 1 Nov. very important.

Originally Posted by Blah

Fixing a bricked M8 shouldnt be that hard, since WinCE is an open OS, and everybody knows how it works and what not to do. Unlike a Bricked iPhone, where apple made a totally custom mobile OS, which almost nobody knows how to fix it.

Even if there is no Engrish interface, it can be easily translated and put as a new skin. Im sure there will be people (like me) that are willing to do these things.

i think very easy, M8 kernal is WinCE, Meizu just write GUI run on top of Kernal. so if want upgrade firmware just upgrade somethink like example "Meizum8Os.exe" is ok already.

Originally Posted by lite

Right.. Because the Windows CE/Mobile is way more 'open source' than OS X on the iPhone? Looool?!?

Yes, it is. Windows CE 6.0 has an 100% "shared" source kernel (which is something along the lines of "open source", but with a BSD-like license). This is not the whole system, but it certainly makes CE6 a very "open" OS.

OS X, on the other hand, is... well, let me ask you: is it's source code available?

Originally Posted by lite

Right.. Because the Windows CE/Mobile is way more 'open source' than OS X on the iPhone? Looool?!?

The device will probably be recoverable if it has been bricked, But it depends on the extent..
Badly damaged boot blocks mean a device wont be able to be restored, most of the time.

Apple customers have a big advantage in bricked iphones , Every iPhone is pratically the same. This means its extremely easy to recover a bricked iPhone, because there are entire communities built, with hundreds of people having the exact same problem as you, So a solution is always there.

I didnt say a bricked iPhone is impossible be fixed, i just said its much harder, since you have to work around the source code to unbrick it. Some have bricked their iPhones so much that their antennas were damaged and unfixable. Either way i dont think its 'extremely easy' to recover a bricked iphone, since there is a chance of damaging it.

Even if there are whole communites with the same problem, there may not always be a solution...



i think Wi-Fi is very easy to unlock on an M8 anyhow, since M8's GUi is just a shell of WinCE. We can probably get a generic CE6 wi-fi driver for the chip and install it.

i want to do some explanation here.

the "au" led display problem referred by jw is for M3 (a kind of mp3 player produced by meizu), and this won't affect the producing of m8.


for the wifi function, most possibly, M8 will come out with the hardware of the wifi chip, and for this you can never get the accture confirmation from here or form jw. because, the wifi function is officially forbidden to be used on cell phone. if this is confirmed here or by jw, the company will be involved in some further legal problems.

meizu is not some international big company, and this is it's first product of cell phone. so i think it doesnt have the ability to issue this product internationally (channel is a big problem). i guess foreigners have to buy m8 through unofficial channel for the several months when it's really put out.

If I understand correctly the M8 can shoot video in 320x240 and 640x480 resolution (no framerate was mentioned...)

[ link ]

By the way, PHILORICK, you're totally right. I'm sure that's the reason he doesn't confirm the wifi chip. He doesn't want to get into any trouble.

Originally Posted by Traps

OS X, on the other hand, is... well, let me ask you: is it's source code available?

Open Source
... and I still don't know where to get that Win CE source code.

Originally Posted by taling hallenthur

Open Source
... and I still don't know where to get that Win CE source code.

That link says the software that runs ON Mac OS X is open. Not OS X itself.

Read the first acticle you find on a Google search "WinCE 6 shared source":
Special Report: Windows CE 6 arrives with 100% kernel source

We are talking about kernels, not entire OSes.
Only the Win CE core is available under that shared source license, not the whole thing and that makes it on par with iPhone OS X.

Not that it matters , Seeing as if a OS is partially open source or not doesn't really determine if the device is recoverable.
But , Win CE is defiantly not an open source OS, Or its not to the same extent as OS X on the iPhone.
A kernel is a fraction of an operating system (although still a key part),Simply put , A kernel is just for communication with the hardware and the software/os/applications.

Originally Posted by taling hallenthur

Open Source
... and I still don't know where to get that Win CE source code.

I've known about OS X's connection with open source software since a long time. I used to be somewhat of an Apple sympathiser some 8 years ago. I guess it was because they looked like an alternative to the "evil Microsoft" and brought me some memories of the Amiga days..

Anyway, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you're wrong if you think that link proves OS X as open source. The only thing mentioned there are applications that come from it's FreeBSD heritage (and which you can find in any other UNIX-based OS out there), but the OS itself is quite closed. You could mention Darwin, which formed the core of OS X, but then again, it's not often updated and it doesn't include key elements like Cocoa, Carbon, Quartz, and so on. In fact it has been argued (and I agree) that the Darwin project was created by Apple just to get free work done by the open source community, while they still keep the final OS X closed.

Regarding the iPhone OS in particular, did you know that the iPhone's software distribution model is not even compatible with GPLv3? How's that for "open source"? And are you aware that developers had to sign non-disclosement agreements that restricted them from revealing any knowledge they might have gained about the OS? (Now this has changed a little bit, but only under certain circumstances)
I'm not sure if you read the links I posted before, but the WinCE license is nothing like that. In fact, I'd bet Microsoft is quite happy to see people writing free software for CE6 or even just talking about how it works.

Originally Posted by taling hallenthur

We are talking about kernels, not entire OSes.
Only the Win CE core is available under that shared source license, not the whole thing and that makes it on par with iPhone OS X.

Originally Posted by lite

Not that it matters , Seeing as if a OS is partially open source or not doesn't really determine if the device is recoverable.
But , Win CE is defiantly not an open source OS, Or its not to the same extent as OS X on the iPhone.
A kernel is a fraction of an operating system (although still a key part),Simply put , A kernel is just for communication with the hardware and the software/os/applications.

IMO, the kernel is the most important part if you want to know how the OS works, or even modify it. On mobile devices, having the kernel open-sourced is a really big help to the manufacturers and core developers (those who will build the SDKs).

Regarding OS X on the iPhone, once again... it is NOT an open source OS, and it is NOT open source/developer friendly either. Even Engadget admits it.


ON-TOPIC:

I'm a bit surprised with the news about the M3. It was one of Meizu's flagship players and even if this doesn't affect their income very much like JW says, it will still hurt their image a bit, IMO. But there's one thing that is not very clear for me: Is this temporary, or are we really seeing the last days of the M3?

Regarding the M8 news, I must say that I'm not surprised at all (and I don't understand the drama either). JW had mentioned before that the WiFi driver would be turned off by software for Chinese customers. The fact that they even include the hardware is something that I'm sure is not ideal for Meizu: that means an additional cost for something that won't be used, and it also might leave them in a still liable situation regarding Chinese law. If I were JW I would prefer not to include the WiFi chip at all, but just like it was mentioned, that would probably cause even more delays. Personally, I had already made my mind so this doesn't really affect me: I will wait for the second version of the M8 (you know, the one that will suposedly have all the promised features: 3G, Tv-Out, USB OTG, etc.).

Is this temporary, or are we really seeing the last days of the M3?

Last days. In China, it's hard to find 4 and 8GB M3s; where I live the shops only sell 1 and 2GB versions...the rest are long gone. Same with Amazon & NewEgg China. I suspect that many (most?) of the listings on Taobao for 4 & 8GB M3s are just bait.

If anyone wants one, better act fast.

How can it be so difficult receiving the mobile phone license???
Is that just an excuse for another delay?

@Traps
Dude, I can't believe you wasted so much time for such a pointless post.
I was talking about Darwin and it is open source. Since it uses BSD license, Apple doesn't have to publish the code anywhere. Instead of writing such obvious things, you could've read about permissive and copyleft licenses and the differences between them.
In addition to that, BSD license is open source but the shared source MS license is not.
Take a look at this: Licenses by Name | Open Source Initiative
BTW it's obvious Darwin is not going to include Cocoa or Carbon API since both of those are developed from ground up by Apple and therefore have proprietary licenses.

"IMO, the kernel is the most important part if you want to know how the OS works, or even modify it. On mobile devices, having the kernel open-sourced is a really big help to the manufacturers and core developers (those who will build the SDKs)." - that made my day :D (or at least the rest of it). It's true, I never claimed that kernel is just a pointless piece of code.

Whatever... I remember explaining someone on this forum that OS X is not a GNU/Linux derivative.

Originally Posted by taling hallenthur

@Traps
Dude, I can't believe you wasted so much time for such a pointless post.

LOL
Ouch, touché..

Well, it wasn't so much time... maybe some 40+ minutes yesterday, plus 15 min today for the on-topic part. But you're right, it's a little too much for something like this!