Small news about M8

Originally Posted by aron

The LG Voyager UI is a huge iPhone rip off, but all the Koreans and even the Americans so typically protective of Apple don't seem to notice. It's definitely worse than the Meizu M8. If the editors mentioned that it was Chinese and not LG, I bet the uproar would be huge. "Oh noez! An iPhone clone from those damn Chinks"
[Huge voyager pic]

At least LG is mixing it up with three icons per row, and a physical keypad clamshell design. No on-screen keyboard in this ui.

J.wong said that Meizu will release a new earphone......and the price of pt850 will cut down...cos' the fake pt850 are soooooooo many..

I have to agree how can Meizu possible get done when samsung come out with s**t like this >>>>>>



and some how blogs like engadget keep bashing the M8 and don't bat an eye lid when samsung drop this crap. Unbelievable. This just shows the power big companies have over the media. Engadget need a serious lesson in journalistic integrity and unbiased reporting.

Where did engadget bash the M8? They showed a video of a "protoype" at the Cebit and, of course, you can't write anything positive about a "protoype" like this.

no, engadget has been extremely negative in it's coverage of the Meizu M8. When their CEBIT booth was shut down by the authorities due to the display of 'MP3 playback' capabilities (Meizu hadn't paid the licensing fees necessary to do that legally), Engadget automatically assumed that the good German folk were cracking down on the fact that the M8 resembles the Iphone. They were later smacked down in the comments section by their more informed users, forcing them to clarify the issue 7 hours later in a new post. See for yourself:

Meizu CeBIT booth shut down by German authorities - Engadget

Meizu's CeBIT booth shut down over MP3 licensing issues, not the M8 - Engadget

If you can't see that Engadget is negative towards Meizu, I believe you need glasses/eye surgery/contacts.

haha, yeah there is simply no way anyone could ever argue engadget have not given the M8 nothing but negative press. Every single time it is mentioned there is some comment about it being an iphone clone, or sly criticism or negative feelings towards the company. Personally I think it has to do with the fact Meizu is a Chinese company and not well established in the west.

IMO It just reflects a steroetypical view the west has of China as just a rogue state with no copyright laws who clone stuff and have no original ideas. Have you ever noticed that the Meizu threads often descend into a slagging match about how the Chinese just rip off western companies and have no original ideas? I've heard people bringing up the fact China invented paper for F**k sake! Thats just madness.

Also 'Iclone' comments and negative feeling are so much more obvious in Meizu related threads than towards any other company with phones similar to the iphone like the Samsung Instinct or LG Voyager.

This is what they said in the latest thread about the Samsung Instinct (shown above).

'Samsung's latest volley in the iPhone's general direction -- the Instinct -- had been promised for a June launch, but beyond that we hadn't gotten a specific date.'

now compare that not even particularly negative comment to ANY thread about the M8. You will see what I mean...

Originally Posted by sere83

I have to agree how can Meizu possible get done when samsung come out with s**t like this >>>>>>



and some how blogs like engadget keep bashing the M8 and don't bat an eye lid when samsung drop this crap. Unbelievable. This just shows the power big companies have over the media. Engadget need a serious lesson in journalistic integrity and unbiased reporting.

It looks quite different in my opinion, well compared to some of the M8 shots:
meizu m8 - Google Image Search

I can't really blame samsung for looking like iPhone when I can't really think of what else they could do to make it look different without taking away to extra features to the UI which a large touchscreen provides. I think they've done a good job with making it look different to the iPhone.

Originally Posted by sere83

IMO It just reflects a steroetypical view the west has of China as just a rogue state with no copyright laws who clone stuff and have no original ideas.

Part of the reason for the reason why people are weary of the M8 is that it's not a well known brand in the West and it's from China which makes a lot of the cheap rip offs of just about every electrical item. But people should stop assuming that the M8 is the same and actually look a bit deeper before making accusations.

What do you expect engadget to write about the non-existing M8? That it is a superior phone?

And once again, where did engadget bash the M8? They went to the Cebit and to the Meizu booth and they wrote an article about it: Meizu M8 mini One vs. iPhone... fight! - Engadget

the mini One felt good in the hand and the additional hard buttons, 720 x 480 pixel display, 3 megapixel camera and likely el cheapo price tag have once again perked our interests.

And the rest of the article is all true:

Let's be clear, the prototype is not functional by any stretch of the imagination. It simply turns on and then slaps up one of three images representing the home screen, dialer, or media player depending upon which of the three physical buttons you press along the bottom of the main display. The capacitive touch panel does not work at all. While the physical components may or may not be in place, this is clearly a very early engineering sample.

That's the reality. There is no M8 and if there will be an M8 anytime soon you should know that "soon" will not be before 2009.

well..personally I think the samsung instinct looks very much like an iphone. Are you really trying to tell me you cannot see the similarity? (silver trim, rows of coloutrful icons, row of icons at the bottom looks just like the iphones, favourite tab in particular) And Hendrik you have been very selective with the engadget comment about the M8 you chose there. Go look at any of the other articles about the m8 prior to CeBit.

At the end of the day I'm not defending the fact Meizu has still not brought this phone to market. I'm simply talking about the negative press it has been given by engadget. Even when other large western companies have yet to bring a product to market they still don't get the same treatment Meizu has got. As Skinny101 and I have said earlier Meizu is not established in the West and China has the worst reputation for faking and cloning. It is after all the center of the world fake trade. This is what I attribute engadgets negative press to personally.

However....many many electronic products look very very similar and companies have copied and borrowed ideas from eachother since day 1. There is however a very very fine line IMO about how close you can get to another products look before it is called a clone. Many people including engadget have felt that Meizu have gone one step to far.

Personally I take a far more relaistic view. A massive percentage of these products are made in china. Including those from most of the large companies like apple, samsung etc. A company that makes cheap poor quality clones Imo has rather different business practices to those that make high quality products that may be inspired by or copy ideas form other high quality products. The difference between a clone and a high quality product is attributed to in the standards of quality maintained by the factories (sometimes), design alterations (aren't exact copies of other products), respecting copyright laws (or doing whatever the company can to alter a product so it gets passed the checks and is not threatened with legal action) and using legitmate trade links and reputable sellers to distribute their products (rather than the black market).

Mr Wong has been quoted himself saying that Meizu is in an early stage of it's evolution (particularly in the field of cell phones) and feels it must copy ideas from companies like Apple to progress (as many Japenese compnies did during the 1980's). Meizu is not attempting to sell this phone on the black market as a cheap clone and from what I have read is looking for legitimate distribution deals in Europe and the US.

So how is it possible that people can argue because a large player like Samsung has deviated only slightly more from completely copying the Iphones Ui (less icons in a row, different icons, different transitions etc) that they claim more right to be accepted by the western media. Maybe because they are more established? because they are larger? because critics have attributed certain ground breaking products to them in the past? because they are not Chinese? This in itself is a very interesting and in many ways confusing debate, with no correct answers.

People at the end of the day must form their own views. But never be brainwashed by branding. 90% of these products are made in factories with very similar cramped, poor, exploitative working conditions. So personally I see no need to get precious about certain brands as they all use they same cheap workforce and some even similar quailty control standards to cloners. Perhaps the difference comes in the quality of the design and how well or how convincigly these companies disguise their 'inspiration'.

Originally Posted by sere83

well..personally I think the samsung instinct looks very much like an iphone. Are you really trying to tell me you cannot see the similarity? (silver trim, rows of coloutrful icons, row of icons at the bottom looks just like the iphones, favourite tab in particular) And Hendrik you have been very selective with the engadget comment about the M8 you chose there. Go look at any of the other articles about the m8 prior to CeBit.

Hm...let's see, prior to CeBIT we had pics like this:

Can't really blame Engadget when using the iClone stamp prior to CeBIT when you see pics like this right? Just try to defend these pics from cloning. Let's just say I see a more striking resemblance in this pic than with the overall look of the Samsung.

At the end of the day I'm not defending the fact Meizu has still not brought this phone to market. I'm simply talking about the negative press it has been given by engadget. Even when other large western companies have yet to bring a product to market they still don't get the same treatment Meizu has got. As Skinny101 and I have said earlier Meizu is not established in the West and China has the worst reputation for faking and cloning. It is after all the center of the world fake trade. This is what I attribute engadgets negative press to personally.

I understand (and agree) with you. The Chinese have brought this image to themself though, not much the fault of the west. I think the major reason of crititisism was of the huge delay of Meizu, which any other company would have gotten as well. And the above clonely-ness mentioned of course.

Personally I take a far more relaistic view. A massive percentage of these products are made in china. Including those from most of the large companies like apple, samsung etc. A company that makes cheap poor quality clones Imo has rather different business practices to those that make high quality products that may be inspired by or copy ideas form other high quality products. The difference between a clone and a high quality product is attributed to in the standards of quality maintained by the factories (sometimes), design alterations (aren't exact copies of other products), respecting copyright laws (or doing whatever the company can to alter a product so it gets passed the checks and is not threatened with legal action) and using legitmate trade links and reputable sellers to distribute their products (rather than the black market).

That's why it's good news that Meizu decided to redo the GUI, and that they've changed the apprearance a bit (more buttons, different measurements). This will improve their image to other people but they kinda blew it with the first m8 pics though (in terms of not-cloning).

So how is it possible that people can argue because a large player like Samsung has deviated only slightly more from completely copying the Iphones Ui (less icons in a row, different icons, different transitions etc) that they claim more right to be accepted by the western media. Maybe because they are more established? because they are larger? because critics have attributed certain ground breaking products to them in the past? because they are not Chinese? This in itself is a very interesting and in many ways confusing debate, with no correct answers.

I don't think you can compare the M8 to this Samsung phone just like that. The clone-factor is much higher on the m8 -> look at above picture.

no one can deny that the Gui screenshots released by meizu prior to Cebit are almost exact copies of the iphones Gui, minus a few minor changes. But what I'm trying to say is...what rules govern whether a manafacturer becomes branded by the westren media as a clone maker or a large company is said to be making an 'iphone killer'.

What are we talking about? are you saying the M8's clone factor is higher because of a matter of a few icons difference? A few slightly different shped/coloured translucent scroll bars? or any of the things I listed before like business practices, country of origin, reputation etc?

I'm not trying to say I have answers but it just seems very strange to me that one is seen as a clone and one is an 'iphone killer' when there is no concrete criteria by which these things can be judged. Are you telling me that this does not look like the iphone? >>>>>

Instinct Music 2.jpg
Instinct Dialer.jpg
Instinct Music.jpg
Instinct Favorites Menu.jpg
Instinct Keyboard.jpg

As I have said before this comes down to very small visual design alterations, or a company being slighly better at trying to mask their copying practices. We may even be seeing something deeper in the case of Samsung as clearly apple want to keep them on side as they are one of their main component suppliers.

And think about this....what if meizu had never released those Gui shots? and come straight out with the future altered GUI designed be EICO. Would that make them any less of a clone manufacturer in the eyes of the western media? So does this clone Vs killer debate revolve around a few early screen shots?

Here is Gizmodo describing the Instinct as an 'IPhone Killer' >>

Sprint's Samsung Instinct: At Last, a Decent iPhone Competitor

All i'm saying is this is all a very grey area as it all comes down to a matter of opinion at the end of the day or people choosing to judge each phone based on completely different and IMO often inconsistent criteria.

A clone maker simply rips off the things that are destinctive of the original product, a "iphone killer" would drop the need to buy an iPhone as the killer is clearly a better product. May I add that these two things have absolutely no connection with each other, as a better product is not the same as a ripped off product.

The west is biased concerning the clone factor in Chinese products, I completely agree that's a fact. But those first screens Meizu released sorta confirmed this for them, with which they actually blew any good image of not ripping off. Their past with the m6 and m3 probably didn't help this as well. The clone factor indeed depends on how alike a new product looks like a past product. Apple has probably put in a lot of effort to make a destinctive and effective GUI, and the GUI in that picture from Meizu just copies all of that.

As for the Instinct, Samsung is putting the same "ease of use" principles in their GUI, but they're giving it their own Samsung style. Better well stolen than badly thought up. They stole those principles well because I'm not getting a clone-feeling with the instinct while I do/did with the m8.

And think about this....what if meizu had never released those Gui shots? and come straight out with the future altered GUI designed be EICO. Would that make them any less of a clone manufacturer in the eyes of the western media? So does this clone Vs killer debate revolve around a few early screen shots?

With an original GUI, their "better" hardware specs and a black look that doesn't rip off the iPod touch I don't see why the m8 would be seen as a clone. Yes, it looks like the touch now.

I agree with you sere83, that it is a very gray area in business principles and strategy. But as a consumer in the phone-market I won't really jump into that discussion too much.

well as I said before I think there is a very fine line between, copying and slight alterations and just because a company have done a few extra alterations doesn't make them more worthy of the title 'Iphone killer/competitor' title rather than the negative title of 'shameless cloner' Meizu has been labelled with by the likes of Engadget IMO. If you ask me the Instinct GUI looks very iphone like, things like full screen album art and the row of icons across the bottom of the screen, the silver trim and form factor, colourful icons arranged in a very similar iphone fashion etc. But as I said before this is purely a matter of opinion and totally subjective. I definitely agree though about Meizu's reputation from the m3 and m6 contributing to them being viewed as a cloner once the original Gui shots dropped.

However these cosmetic alterations to the GUI could have easily been done by Meizu originally. Admitedly Meizu could have and should have made more of an effort to move away from the iphone look earlier to dispell controversy, but again we are talking about a few icons and the arrangement of certain scroll bars, icons docks, buttons and options screens. Look at the touch sensitive button arrangemet on the Instinct are they not positioned in exactly the same place as the hard buttons on the front of the M8? And what about the back of the M8? It looks nothing like the iphone.

This isn't rocket science, anyone could have altered the GUI considering the amount of pre-made opensource icons/bars/buttons etc available nowadays. So because Meizu did not spend a little extra time at an earlier stage doing this they become the villain? At the end of the day the hardware and most of the software (not actual GUI, but the platform (Win CE 6.0)) in the M8 will be as different to the Hardware and platform (OSX) in the iphone as any other phone. Nevertheless somehow Meizu becomes a cloner and Samsung don't get questioned as they spent a bit more time changing icons/scroll bars/buttons etc and concealing what IMO is a rip off the iphone's GUI and form factor.

Again the business practice debate is a whole other kettle of fish. In reality there is no right answer with issues as subjective and unrestricted as these. I just find the whole debate interesting bearing in mind these devices are probably made in almost identical environments by almost identical types of work forces using similar components made by similar companies. Yet one is seen as a 'cloner' and the other a competitor in the western media based mainly on a small number of small cosmetic changes. I guess this is brand power in action....

Originally Posted by sere83

However these cosmetic alterations to the GUI could have easily been done by Meizu originally. Admitedly Meizu could have and should have made more of an effort to move away from the iphone look earlier to dispell controversy, but again we are talking about a few icons and the arrangement of certain scroll bars, icons docks, buttons and options screens. Look at the touch sensitive button arrangemet on the Instinct are they not positioned in exactly the same place as the hard buttons on the front of the M8? And what about the back of the M8? It looks nothing like the iphone.

Are you kidding? The back of it looks different so the design is completely different?

Probably made this design while looking at the iPhone
http://www.iphonenewsblog.com/iPhonevsM8-m.jpg
i dunno if this is fan art or what but it looks pretty much like an iPod Touch
http://www.engadget.com/media/2007/1...8-mini-one.jpg

The back of the M8
http://www.engadget.com/media/2007/0...front-back.jpg
Back of iPhone
http://www.cellphones.ca/news/upload/iphone%20back.jpg


I'm not slamming the M8, I'm just saying how can you complain that the Samsung looks like the iPhone and that the M8 has changed more than they have (well you implied it)?

Originally Posted by sere83

I have to agree how can Meizu possible get done when samsung come out with s**t like this >>>>>>

As apposed to Meizu coming out with shots like this:


Once again, I'm not baggin the M8. Just those ridiculous comments.

Well the M8 design has changed a lot since those shots, look at shots of the back now. Also you are missing the point I am trying to make, read my posts carefully. Also bare in mind that the Gui has just changed and loks like this >>>>

http://www.meizume.com/meizu-news/63...ged-again.html

this makes my last post even more relevant.

Hi guys
I finally got reply about the release data. The answer do too consider the new UI. Here is the last message from Yankee Chan:

”Hi TheTorminator!
I am glad you are interesed in our mini one. It will be released in Septerber. But we are not sure if it is the final date. It must base on our development.
Currently we are work hard on the UI and product logos. Hope it looks charming in the youngster.
[ÌÖÂÛ]J.Wong·¢µÄÐÂͼ5ÔÂ24ÈÕ[÷È×åÂÛ̳]
You can get more information from this direct link.
Meizu always upload some pictures about progress on the official website. Thousands of Meizu fans will give us some suggestion. They are a very large and important power for Meizu. So, if you guys have any suggestions, please don't hesitate to chat on our website. The designer and boss will consider a lot!:D”
Yankee Chan, Meizu Technology Co., Ltd

As written there is no final date on M8 yet. August, September or whatever it should be around this time. Meanwhile you can join the bbs forum and be with to make different on this UI if there is something you don't like with it.
But either I or my computer can read Chinese, so you won't see me there. I don't really have much interest in the M8 yet,
I am quiet happy with my M6. I wait to see you guys what you have to say about it. I maybe look more forward to the M7, I don't really need a new phone yet.

The latest news on M8 test version from J.W May.30

3000 M8 of test version will be released very soon.

Display: 3.4", 65K, 720x480 pixel resolution, the formal version will be 16000k

The price for M8 8G is 2008RMB, and can change for a formal one(when formal version come out) with compensation of 380RMB.

The screen is very hard, it is not easy to be scratched.

The formal version would be released 3 months later than the test one.

---from official forum bbs.meizu.com.cn

does that sound right? according to current exchange rates (1USD=6.965RMB), the price for the test version would be ~289USD and the final version would be ~344USD. That's far lower than the $416 that people were predicting. An unlocked 8GB phone in that range would be very competitive, even if Ebay shipping rates moved it up to USD 320 or so.

So the 8GB will be available for $289? And then you will be able to upgrade for $55 to 16GB when it becomes available?