A small M8 education for those losing faith.

Originally Posted by sere83

The M8 will not have to down scale anything, this is the whole point. Because the screen res will be so high (720x480) the screen will be optimised to properly handle any mpeg 4 file up to this resolution. In other words it will be optimized to handle 720x480 without a problem so anything lower will be less taxing on the processor. This means that no file up to dvd res will have to be down scaled at all. You could encode your videos at any resolution 320x240/640x480/720x480 and the M8 will be able to play them back sharper and with more clarity than any other phone on the market. Also by the time you have written 1000 cycles you will almost certainly have a new phone anyway!

The Sony Xperia offline will be very expensive when compared the M8, it has other features like 3G and GPS but it will also be more than twice the price! To put a micro sd 16gb card in it will also cost a lot more too as they have not even been released yet. You are looking at around $800 at very least at release and the price will not fall very quickly either. In september 16gb micro sd will probably not be standard in any phones. The M8 will also have other features like USB-OTG/codec support and a bigger screen that the sony ericsson will not have. In September there will be very few (if any) phones that can offer the kind of spec meizu will be offering for the price. There may be better specd phones out by then but they will also cost a lot more money. I am not sure but I think the 8 and 16gb M8's will release at the same time too.

Stongly disagree to the fist paragraph. I think you have never programmed - I wrote two emulators (ok small and crappy one) - and scaling from low to higher resolution cost MUSH (I have not seen any hardware feature for that in the M8 - correct me if I am wrong) - especially if you can not simply double the pixels. So upscaling costs processore time - and it costs battery! Also the the sentence "... the M8 will be able to play them back sharper and with more clarity than any other phone on the market." I so much nonsence. You can not create better qualtiy by a screen if the source is sh***.

In fact: especially the features over the small m8 (+aGPS) the SE X1 will offer are the more expensive ones. And if you want to compare both phones, you have to do it with the M8 released in late 2008 - the big one with front camara, 3G, and big storage - and btw: SE X1 has an mini-USB, most likely with host support - so it is an USB-OTG port! For this M8 we do not know the price yet, but it will most likely be + 100 € (+150 $) in addition to the small m8. That is much for a small, unknown, not established chinese brand, never proven to constuct quality phones.

Also keep in mind: SE put the SE X1 in direct competition to the iPhone 2 - they will not try to make money (in first glance), but to gain market share.

Originally Posted by midsommer

P.S.: most movies are downloadable now for the iPhone resolution - so the m8 will have to scale it! This will drain the battery. And: the m8 8GB would only be able to keep one DVD (4.2GB) movie - I will definitelly use the shrunken iPhone optimized one (500 GB). btw: that speaks against your wide screen HD argument, too. You will not be able to use it, as you run out of storage. or you are willing to overwrite your unremovable storage many times - so the storage will be out of order soon (the only reason why flashes are said to hold longer now, is mostlikly due to the OS file system avoing rewriting cicles as much as possible. But if you have always to use allways the full space, the flash will be gone within 1000 write cycles (ok - that will be 2 years, but not guaranty).

I disagree with your point about downloading movies for the iPhone resolution. This doesn't make sense unless you specifically want to watch them on an iPhone, as otherwise you'd choose a better resolution to use on your home computer. In fact I would say that the vast majority of people download movies/series at resolutions around 640x480 or higher.

The advantage of the M8 screen resolution is allowing you to play higher resolutions (those you download to watch at home) without converting. Scaling up from lower resolutions doesn't necessarily mean greater battery drain, since the most intensive computation is the decoding part, and it should be much lighter on those cases.

Regarding the 1000 write cycles for flash memory, this value is incorrect. The current value is 100,000 cycles for NOR memory, and 1,000,000 cycles for NAND memory (you can check it on wikipedia). This means that even without "wear leveling" it should last you a lifetime, as long as you're the only one writing data onto it. With WinCE, you'll probably have constant writes to a swap file, but in this case "wear leveling" is also used, and you'll still have many years of flash lifetime.

lol, x1 doesn't have to do anything with the rumored release of iphone2, it's meant for the bissines market and users, that's why you don't see 8gb in it, it's not multimedia oriented.

Originally Posted by Traps

I disagree with your point about downloading movies for the iPhone resolution. This doesn't make sense unless you specifically want to watch them on an iPhone, as otherwise you'd choose a better resolution to use on your home computer. In fact I would say that the vast majority of people download movies/series at resolutions around 640x480 or higher.

The advantage of the M8 screen resolution is allowing you to play higher resolutions (those you download to watch at home) without converting. Scaling up from lower resolutions doesn't necessarily mean greater battery drain, since the most intensive computation is the decoding part, and it should be much lighter on those cases.

Regarding the 1000 write cycles for flash memory, this value is incorrect. The current value is 100,000 cycles for NOR memory, and 1,000,000 cycles for NAND memory (you can check it on wikipedia). This means that even without "wear leveling" it should last you a lifetime, as long as you're the only one writing data onto it. With WinCE, you'll probably have constant writes to a swap file, but in this case "wear leveling" is also used, and you'll still have many years of flash lifetime.

1) Most online platformes indeed offers only iphone optimized versions by now - I speak about the official ones. Might be due to the fact, that they want to make money. I will not use piracy. I will bet, even in the near future most people will prefere the iphone optimized version, as they are good in quality as well as small (Download time).

2) Disagree here - I will bet, they will have supported decoding, but not accelerated upscaling features - not in a phone! Even most up to date graphic card do not support that.

3) Sorry about the NOR life time cycles. 10 000 to 100 000 is much better than the number I learnd in university... (time runs so fast)

Originally Posted by darkado

lol, x1 doesn't have to do anything with the rumored release of iphone2, it's meant for the bissines market and users, that's why you don't see 8gb in it, it's not multimedia oriented.

In fact the the SE X1 is a mulitmedia phone with business features.
It is in competition to the iPhone 2 as the latter will offer business features soon. How comes you think it is a business phone?

But this is not a topic for here - go to SE blogs, etc. here you will find more infos.

Originally Posted by midsommer

The USB-stuff seems a good point! I even could use the PS3 for encoding. But: as far as I know, the m8 will only have a mini usb connector. I am not willing to carry an adaptor cable with me only for the USB-flash... if they use a USB2-OTG - why not implementing the standard _big_ in/output?

Yep, full size usb would be better...but no portable device have that AFAIK: there are space constraints, and power limitation (USB2 full size is required to be able to deliver 5W if I remember correctly).
So i do not see much hope of not carying mini-to-full USB adaptor for taking full advantage of USB OTG, being with Meizu m8 or any other manufacturer...
At least, this cable should be usable as charger adapter, allowing to use any standard USB charger in car or on the move...

For comparison between M8 and 'others', some news on the new iPhone.

Engadget says: 3G and GPS:
The second-gen iPhone: 3G, GPS, only slightly thicker - Engadget

And several sites are saying it might haptic feedback:
LEAKED: Apple to Licence Haptic Technology for iPhone : Palluxo! Mac Dose of All Things Apple

That would mean that if you 'press' a 'button' on the touch screen, you'd get vibration like feedback to make it seem you really are actually pressing a button. Nokia has licsensed this as well, the article says.

Originally Posted by midsommer

2) Disagree here - I will bet, they will have supported decoding, but not accelerated upscaling features - not in a phone! Even most up to date graphic card do not support that.

hum...the 6410 documentation mention stuff that suggest hardware scaling (or at least, hardware assisted scaling (they have openGL, and 2D engine able to do rotation). So scaling to a different resolution should not be a problem...Especially as TV-out is supported: you will need scaling to do that anyway...
However, this does not mean it will be good scaling (good scaling is more than linear transformation from one resolution to another, AFAIK it uses temporal information (multiple succesive frames are used to compose the scaled frame) or even work at the codec stage...or at least that the info I got while reading about DVD upscaling for HDTV...)
It would probably be fast but poor up/downscaling...but at those DPI, I do not expect up/downscaling artifacts to be really noticeable...

Originally Posted by midsommer

In fact the the SE X1 is a mulitmedia phone with business features.
It is in competition to the iPhone 2 as the latter will offer business features soon. How comes you think it is a business phone?

But this is not a topic for here - go to SE blogs, etc. here you will find more infos.

for one fully, functional office suite sets a course, other things just follow. the x1 is in completely other market segment than the iphone.

Originally Posted by midsommer

1) Most online platformes indeed offers only iphone optimized versions by now - I speak about the official ones. Might be due to the fact, that they want to make money. I will not use piracy. I will bet, even in the near future most people will prefere the iphone optimized version, as they are good in quality as well as small (Download time).

Sorry, I was not suggesting that you should use piracy. I don't use "piracy" either (at least not in my understanding of the term), as I usually see movies at the movie theater or rent them in DVD.
I do watch many anime fansubs (which you could call piracy, but that's a controversial topic), since they are the only way to get the latest anime outside of Japan. And at least on this case, the tendency is for supported resolutions to increase: 640x480 is normal, but you can get it up to 1024x768 or more.

Anyway, I agree that 480x320 may be nice for 3.5", but on a home theater system it would look absolutely horrible. And it doesn't make sense to buy the same movie over and over for each device you own.

Originally Posted by Traps

Anyway, I agree that 480x320 may be nice for 3.5", but on a home theater system it would look absolutely horrible. And it doesn't make sense to buy the same movie over and over for each device you own.

Well, that depends, I can assure you that for sony, WB, apple or the **AA, "buying the same movie over and over for each device you own" makes a lot of sense. OOOOh yes, a lot of sense indeed ;-)

The meizu m8 is a big vaporware !

good comparison but you forgot : iphone is still released !

And the meizu m8?? we still waiting since 1 year!

Because it was too long to wait, I've already buy an iphone , and I love it.

The first version of the M8 (if it will be released one day...) doesn't support DMB , GPS, 3G... it's just a new iphone comes with more than one year late...

So tell me what's the advantage to buy something, that an other consumer as allready sell? ok , maybe for a cheaper price.

But this M8 is not a revolution !

And this M8 will be old fashion if the iphone 3g got gps.

At the beginning I was really excited to see the M8, but now after months and months of announcement, that's make me think that's it's a born dead project. Guess I'm wrong

Originally Posted by DAZKILL

The meizu m8 is a big vaporware !

good comparison but you forgot : iphone is still released !

And the meizu m8?? we still waiting since 1 year!

Because it was too long to wait, I've already buy an iphone , and I love it.

The first version of the M8 (if it will be released one day...) doesn't support DMB , GPS, 3G... it's just a new iphone comes with more than one year late...

So tell me what's the advantage to buy something, that an other consumer as allready sell? ok , maybe for a cheaper price.

But this M8 is not a revolution !

And this M8 will be old fashion if the iphone 3g got gps.

At the beginning I was really excited to see the M8, but now after months and months of announcement, that's make me think that's it's a born dead project. Guess I'm wrong

Just read the first post and you will see why the M8 IS a revolution!
Why are you sure it won't support for example GPS? I' think the decission is not made yes, is it? and I still hope it will be in!

Originally Posted by midsommer

We speak about the release date in December - not now! There you definitelly find a 32GB microSDHC! And: I use my phone longer then 1 year. It would be idiotic not to include the capability to use such cards.

And iPhone 2 is said to use the same processor - but these are still rumors. But why should they not use a mass product?

Finally: the price of 450 $ for the small m8 is too high! The iPhone will again drop in price after July - belive me (iPhone 2!). Of course: worse screen, but the iPhone screen is fantastic (if the same as the iPod Touch one)! I would not pay more money for the 720x480 resolution. If you would, do it. I can only speak for me. And btw: the SE Xeperia 1 will most likely be out September with 800 x 480. for a price tag of about 900$ In December mostlikely it will be at 700 $. But even then it offer more then the _big_ m8 (aGPs, full office suit, expansion slot, etc.), which price is still unknown and most likely be around 550 - 600 $ (100 to 150 $ more then the small one).

P.S.: in December (end of 2008) the _big_ version of the m8 (front cam, 16 GB) will come - the pricing will be? Well - most likely 550 - 650 $. In such a catagory you will find tons of better phones! Just see the CES anouncements!
Do not speak about FREE phones, jailbreak or debrand them. You can not speak about warranty for the m8 - as long as you do not come from china.

Where did you get $450 from? Are you saying that the Xperia will drop in price in two months, by $200? I think the Xperia is a VERY nice phone, but the price is what I will worry about. Also, will it be unlocked? Isn't the 3G supposed to be here by December? I would gladly play $100 less for a phone with a better resolution, removable battery, and is unlocked out of the box. No need to void your warranty.

I forgot to mention this, but can you get the Xperia in 16GB or does it have a microSD slot? Like I said, the Xperia, I think, will be a very nice phone. But the price will (probably) be high. Can you please tell me of some other phones that will compete with the iPhone/M8? It wouldn't matter where you bought the Meizu, it's covered under warranty. It would take longer if you had to send it to China, no doubt. That's what distributors are for.

DAZKILL: So the M8 will be old-fashioned because it doesn't have GPS? I honestly didn't think it was that important. Are you even aware of the specs of the M8? Get back to me when you do. Well why would I buy it? Not just because it will be cheaper, but because of the removable battery, 6410 processor, unlocked, and the excellent screen resolution.

whatever anyone says, If the M8 is delivered on time and works well it will represent good value and have some great features. The current spec looks great to me. I'm not interested if it doesn't have GPS, 3G or other additional options high end phones have. As I have said before, why does this phone have to be the most high specd phone on the market? it is certainly not priced like that so why are people expecting it to be? I can gaurantee 100% this phone will certainly not be out of date when it comes out and if it functions well will still be a a strong contender with some great features at a great price, is that not all that matters?

The M8 has always interested me for 1 specific reason. It is the only phone that gives me certain functions I have always wanted in a combined phone and media playing device (usb-otg, drag and drop, codec support, no re-encoding of video, removable bat, wifi etc). Plus no matter what else is on the market, it will still be cheap and will still do a number of things no other phone on the market will do.

I am interested in the M8 for the main reason it was made.....as a media focussed cell phone with rich media functionality. All these people banging on about it not being able to compete with high end cell phones and pda's made by the world biggest manafacturers is irrelevant IMO. IMO the reason to buy the M8 is for the features it has that other manafcturers refuse to put in their phones.

It's like buying any product, you buy the thing that closely caters for your own needs and desires. If you want 3G or GPS etc then the 1st gen M8 is not for you. Go buy something else like a noka or htc device. If you want to use itunes, convert your videos then maybe the iphone is a better option. For me the m8 seems like the best option.

Originally Posted by SteveMB93

Where did you get $450 from? Are you saying that the Xperia will drop in price in two months, by $200? I think the Xperia is a VERY nice phone, but the price is what I will worry about. Also, will it be unlocked? Isn't the 3G supposed to be here by December? I would gladly play $100 less for a phone with a better resolution, removable battery, and is unlocked out of the box. No need to void your warranty.

I forgot to mention this, but can you get the Xperia in 16GB or does it have a microSD slot? Like I said, the Xperia, I think, will be a very nice phone. But the price will (probably) be high. Can you please tell me of some other phones that will compete with the iPhone/M8? It wouldn't matter where you bought the Meizu, it's covered under warranty. It would take longer if you had to send it to China, no doubt. That's what distributors are for.

DAZKILL: So the M8 will be old-fashioned because it doesn't have GPS? I honestly didn't think it was that important. Are you even aware of the specs of the M8? Get back to me when you do. Well why would I buy it? Not just because it will be cheaper, but because of the removable battery, 6410 processor, unlocked, and the excellent screen resolution.

450 $: I found it on the bbs - but might be due google translations. 450 $ sounds far to much to me, too (Maybe they were talking about the _big_ Version out in December?).

But even the 220 € (= 340 $ ) (posted recently here) for the _small_ m8 is not any revolution at all - not in September! They really should think about reducing the price for not offering any fancy, up to date stuff.

old fashioned? Without GPS, 3G, touch feedback, cardslot, front camera, etc.: that is old fashioned! how would you call this?

Xperia 1: we will see: my m600i fall in price from 550 to 330 € within two month. But future will tell. (IMHO: Xperia will be a big success - so incl. contracts it will be cheap! (I assume the monthly fees to be around 20 € incl 50 MB)). And yes it comes with microSD (Xperia X1 - Smartphone mit Windows-Mobile von Sony Ericsson - Golem.de - GERMAN)

Warranty: Sending them under warranty back to china, you have to pay the transportation! You have no security to get the phone back (simply by the transportation company in china - yes we often send stuff to china - UPS, etc. - some times packages simply vanish), as long as you do not pay extra insurences! I would not try to sue a chinese company only for a phone (even for 500 € - try to find a lawyer for this). Further more: Would you pay roughly 50 € (075 $) for transportation only because some small problems - not thinking about the waiting period. That is not a realistic warranty.

BUT: in Germany you have a 14-day give back guaranty on internet buy (from German stores)! (So please be aware of this, too). :D

finally: for a simple media based phone as the _small_ m8 will be (if ever released), 220 € are totally overpriced: the old iphone (with a lower resolution screen) will be cheaper (actually it is alreay at 220 € now... (for Europeans in NYC )). AND: Apple prove their qualtity and support - MEIZU not.

The _big_ m8 (hopfully) coming in December, with all the mentioned features should not cost more then 250 € to bring an impact. Do not make arguments like - the new SAMSUNG processor. It will be a mass product by then.

AND: in December I and most technique interested people here will peak on Android (I already can see the threads: howto put ANDROID on the m8). So why Meizu even wasted money and efford for a WM skin? Same with the Opera Browser. I definitelly will NOT use Opera Mobile, not with a 720 x 480 screen! I will download (for FREE) Opera MINI!

PS: Face the fact, that the m8 is designed for the chinese market, without an official iPhone distribition. Even in December this market will be happy about such a phone, while the western world is absolutly used to such devices since 1 - 2 years!

lol, what are talking about, you live in future or something. look behind, i bought my n73 two years ago, TWO YEARS and it's still good, sure they slapped some more mpixels and animated icons, but that's it. 220 euros is not a lot for the m8, it's about the right price. what's the best brand name phone for that price in your opinion?

Originally Posted by M47Z

Just read the first post and you will see why the M8 IS a revolution!
Why are you sure it won't support for example GPS? I' think the decission is not made yes, is it? and I still hope it will be in!

I'm sure there is no gps , no dmb in the first version of the mp8 , you can verified these information in this picture

it was taken from the meizu stand at the cebit

Meizu M8 mini One vs. iPhone... fight! - Engadget

so where is the 3g , the gps , the dmb ????

no where !!!!

sorry but waiting more than 18 month for a poor apple copy with no evolution. I prefer to keep with my iphone.

I'm really waiting a meizu with 3g, dmb and gps , but it's not for now , the iphone 2 released in june will get 3g et gps for sure.

so what's the meizu interest ? just the price...

waiting waiting and nothing come

Originally Posted by SteveMB93

Where did you get $450 from? Are you saying that the Xperia will drop in price in two months, by $200? I think the Xperia is a VERY nice phone, but the price is what I will worry about. Also, will it be unlocked? Isn't the 3G supposed to be here by December? I would gladly play $100 less for a phone with a better resolution, removable battery, and is unlocked out of the box. No need to void your warranty.

I forgot to mention this, but can you get the Xperia in 16GB or does it have a microSD slot? Like I said, the Xperia, I think, will be a very nice phone. But the price will (probably) be high. Can you please tell me of some other phones that will compete with the iPhone/M8? It wouldn't matter where you bought the Meizu, it's covered under warranty. It would take longer if you had to send it to China, no doubt. That's what distributors are for.

DAZKILL: So the M8 will be old-fashioned because it doesn't have GPS? I honestly didn't think it was that important. Are you even aware of the specs of the M8? Get back to me when you do. Well why would I buy it? Not just because it will be cheaper, but because of the removable battery, 6410 processor, unlocked, and the excellent screen resolution.

GPS will be a standard on smartphone at the end 2008, ok for a removable battery , but you'r were ready to wait 18month for that?

sorry you really sure that you can see a difference between 480x320 and 720x480 on 3.4-3.5" ? i'm not sure You might not know that on a tv hd ready 32" and a full hd 32" there's no differences , the differences appears at 37". So for the screen it's not a good argument

Originally Posted by darkado

lol, what are talking about, you live in future or something. look behind, i bought my n73 two years ago, TWO YEARS and it's still good, sure they slapped some more mpixels and animated icons, but that's it. 220 euros is not a lot for the m8, it's about the right price. what's the best brand name phone for that price in your opinion?

Simply the 8 GB iphone - well - here comes the good support included + qualtiy - but it is more then one year old - got it? And no - I only own a Ipod Toch (but with 32 GB).

And if you are still happy with your n73 - fine. I'am still happy with my m600i (and I am so happy to have 3G - never brows without) - but only as it offerd two years ago features, so that I still can now do stuff most phones can do now for appr. 150 - 200 €. And no - you can absolutly NOT compare the n73 with the m600i. If you are still happy with your n73, you will be happy with the small m8. I do expect more - at least that what the big m8 hopfully will offer in December. But I will not pay more then 300 €.