Apple's iPhone SDK released

Apple - QuickTime - Apple March 6 Event
recently Apple released their SDK software for free.

This could be trouble for the M8, now that the iPhone platform is open.

the m8 should be released soon, they are falling behind.

now all apple has to do is unlock it.

Is that for Mac only or can you get it for Windows as well? Well it's still the same phone that doesn't have a removable battery and is $500 (16GB).

I'm not an expert, but I don't think the SDK has been released to everyone yet. It has only been released to developers (however as you would expect it has been leaked, but it's really quite useless the the average user at the moment). And while the SDK is free, the people who create the programs/applications will most likely charge for them, but there probably will be some free ones. I'm sure you will be able to use it if you have a Windows OS (it would be stupid not to since a large amount of their users will use Windows, and besides it shouldn't be all that hard since all windows needs to do is transfer the applications to the iPod, not actually run them).

I think yes, a setback for the M8. But those who are already set that the iPhone is shit won't be swayed.

Yes, the iPhone SDK is a big blow on the competition, including the yet-to-be-born M8, but from a software developer point of view, I think WinCE is a better alternative. If you don't believe me just look at Engadget's comparison (damn, why are urls for engadget blocked?), which despite their typical pro-Apple bias shows exactly that.


@Skinny101:
Some people may indeed be convinced that the iPhone is shit, which is just plain stupid: The iPhone is a wonderful device which revolutionized the market, introducing a completely new concept - all due to the innovating UI and sensors, since the processing power was not so revolutionary.

But other people just dislike Apple as a company, due to many factors such as (1) their monopolistic strategy, (2) their closed standards/software approach, (3) the whole "having something from Apple is cool" fashion thing, (4) the way they appeal to consumism, and many others. You may say that this is idealistic, but I think it's our responsibility as consumers to think on these aspects and decide where to put our money based on what kind of world we want to live in.

how can the iphone be revolutionary?! he doesn't have a lot of things that are standard for years

Originally Posted by darkado

how can the iphone be revolutionary?! he doesn't have a lot of things that are standard for years

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say the iPhone is a revolutionary phone, which it surely is not. And there are far better phones out there which existed even before it came out.

But if you consider it not as a phone but as a new type of convergence device.. then, as the first of it's kind, it is/was a revolutionary device.

it's not even first in some ways but i see what you meant to say

I know they get compared a lot, but an iPhone SDK thread should be in a completely different forum, not? Like "Off Topic"?

Originally Posted by parena

I know they get compared a lot, but an iPhone SDK thread should be in a completely different forum, not? Like "Off Topic"?

This thread isn't about the actual SDK, it is about how the SDK's release will affect the M8

Originally Posted by Traps

But other people just dislike Apple as a company, due to many factors such as (1) their monopolistic strategy, (2) their closed standards/software approach, (3) the whole "having something from Apple is cool" fashion thing, (4) the way they appeal to consumism, and many others. You may say that this is idealistic, but I think it's our responsibility as consumers to think on these aspects and decide where to put our money based on what kind of world we want to live in.

I guess that is understandable and a personal thing. I don't really care about the company's approach to business (personally). I care about the quality of the product and what benefit it would have to me, and it's price and go for what i think is the best product with a reasonable price. I guess you could say *you the consumer* don't like Apple for the reasons you mentioned, but then Meizu is making a copy of the iPhone (doing their best to stay within copyright laws etc) so are their ideals really that much better. I'm not saying i don't like Meizu though, just making a point. Meizu have taken Apple's unique product (the iPhone) and are making their own version which will have better specs (but how long since the iPhone release?) and make money off it. Ethically is Meizu that much better than Apple?

But that really doesn't touch on any of your points now that i look back lol, but still on the topic of Apple or Meizu, and BTW i still like the M8

Originally Posted by darkado

how can the iphone be revolutionary?! he doesn't have a lot of things that are standard for years

Well there wasn't really any phones that were like the iPhone before. I can't recall a phone before the iPhone which just had a screen and no buttons. It is quite different to your traditional phone. But even with that i personally would prefer an N95 over it or a K850i because they have better specs apart from the touch screen.

first of all meizu is not trying to copy, iphone is not the dirst ts phone!!! htc had alot of ts phones with just call and hang up button. so are you saing apple copied the iphone design? let me answer that, they didn't, but you can't bash any other phone with ts for being a clone out of pure ignorance and fanboyism.

Originally Posted by Skinny101

I guess that is understandable and a personal thing. I don't really care about the company's approach to business (personally). I care about the quality of the product and what benefit it would have to me, and it's price and go for what i think is the best product with a reasonable price. I guess you could say *you the consumer* don't like Apple for the reasons you mentioned, but then Meizu is making a copy of the iPhone (doing their best to stay within copyright laws etc) so are their ideals really that much better. I'm not saying i don't like Meizu though, just making a point. Meizu have taken Apple's unique product (the iPhone) and are making their own version which will have better specs (but how long since the iPhone release?) and make money off it. Ethically is Meizu that much better than Apple?

But that really doesn't touch on any of your points now that i look back lol, but still on the topic of Apple or Meizu, and BTW i still like the M8

Yep, it doesn't touch any of my points... but it's still one very important point nevertheless

To be honest, the fact that it was sort of an "iPhone clone" made me frown since the beginning. I really disliked the earlier M8 designs with the stainless steel trim and the 4 bottom shortcut icons on the main menu. I also disliked the first GUI screens, which not only looked a bit too gray and dull IMO, but also too similar to the iPhone's GUI.
Fortunately, there have been many changes, and by handing the final GUI artwork to professionals, Meizu seems to be really trying to make their product unique. Now we will have to wait to see how unique it will really be in the end

Many people will still say that despite any appearance changes, the M8 is still a copy since it's an attempt to mimic the iPhone concept, but is that really "plagiarism"? I mean, it's obvious that Meizu planned the M8 to be the same kind of device and aim it at the exact same audience as the iPhone, but isn't that how it has always happened with every single product out there? We have to know where to draw the line, and in that sense, I believe that "staying within copyright laws" is the key point. Other than that, it's "competition is good - monopolies are bad" IMO.

Originally Posted by Skinny101

Well there wasn't really any phones that were like the iPhone before. I can't recall a phone before the iPhone which just had a screen and no buttons. It is quite different to your traditional phone. But even with that i personally would prefer an N95 over it or a K850i because they have better specs apart from the touch screen.

The real innovative thing about the iPhone in my opinion was the user interface, and the way it ditched the stylus in favor of finger-only operation, while keeping and even improving touch-screen responsiveness. Multi-touch, as well as the several sensors, played a key role on that.
Again, these where innovative things for a "phone", but that's no reason for them to be Apple exclusive. That would be like keeping technology captive to the ones who got to use it first.

Apple Developer Connection - iPhone Dev Center - iPhone Developer Program

I looked more into the SDK software and its free. (Windows and Mac)

There is also a $99 and 500$ developer program to distribute the programs in the itunes store

Originally Posted by darkado

first of all meizu is not trying to copy, iphone is not the dirst ts phone!!! htc had alot of ts phones with just call and hang up button. so are you saing apple copied the iphone design? let me answer that, they didn't, but you can't bash any other phone with ts for being a clone out of pure ignorance and fanboyism.

HTC is more of a PDA than a mobile phone, it doesn't stay within the same style. And did HTC make theirs a touchscreen you can use your finger with? And i'm not "bashing" Meizu because they are making a similar product to the iPhone. I'm saying that Apple's iPhone is revolutionary and people should stop trying to take that away from them by saying that it's crap based on nothing. None of the phones similar (similar being the other phones trying to be like the iPhone with a touchscreen etc) out today can match the iPhone, and it's OS or whatever phones run on has very few bugs (maybe not on the older firmwares, but the current one runs very smoothly).

Originally Posted by Traps

Many people will still say that despite any appearance changes, the M8 is still a copy since it's an attempt to mimic the iPhone concept, but is that really "plagiarism"? I mean, it's obvious that Meizu planned the M8 to be the same kind of device and aim it at the exact same audience as the iPhone, but isn't that how it has always happened with every single product out there? We have to know where to draw the line, and in that sense, I believe that "staying within copyright laws" is the key point. Other than that, it's "competition is good - monopolies are bad" IMO.


The real innovative thing about the iPhone in my opinion was the user interface, and the way it ditched the stylus in favor of finger-only operation, while keeping and even improving touch-screen responsiveness. Multi-touch, as well as the several sensors, played a key role on that.
Again, these where innovative things for a "phone", but that's no reason for them to be Apple exclusive. That would be like keeping technology captive to the ones who got to use it first.

Yep, i agree. Any company should be able to make a phone like the iPhone cause like you and i said it is revolutionary to phones. It will happen with anything new and different to the rest. It's just the way that so many people have got their mind set that the iPhone is crap yet they want the M8 which only has the advantage of having a lower price tag (but that doesn't make the iPhone worse of a product, just overpriced) removable battery and some higher specs (but then again look at the difference in release dates and you would expect so) that has me kinda annoyed at their ignorance or some word like that.

OH and i'm not an Apple fanboy :eek:
I only own an iPod Touch from Apple, nothing else. I don't really like Apple cause they are so overpriced and sometimes the quality/reliability/lifetime of their products can be bad. But I can see that the iPhone is a great product that shouldn't be instantly considered crap.

that's all great but get it in your head iphone isn't revolutionairy

Originally Posted by darkado

that's all great but get it in your head iphone isn't revolutionairy

Says who? You?

Wow, i'm convinced....

Originally Posted by darkado

that's all great but get it in your head iphone isn't revolutionairy

OK smart ass, tell me then. If you think it is no different to any other phone then why are so many companies trying to make cheap rip offs of it (well all cheap accept for the M8)? Theres gotta be something that makes it better than traditional mobile phone doesn't there

I'm not saying it's specs are that great, it's camera etc come below a lot of previous phones but, it has a touchscreen and a completely different UI to anything before it (well maybe some companies have tried a similar thing before Apple but not have had so much success because they implemented the features poorly).

Do you even understand wtf i mean when i say revolutionary? I'm not saying that every phone in the future is gonna be like the iPhone. I'm saying that the iPhone brings a whole new type of phone to the market.

Originally Posted by Skinny101

OK smart ass, tell me then. If you think it is no different to any other phone then why are so many companies trying to make cheap rip offs of it (well all cheap accept for the M8)? Theres gotta be something that makes it better than traditional mobile phone doesn't there

I'm not saying it's specs are that great, it's camera etc come below a lot of previous phones but, it has a touchscreen and a completely different UI to anything before it (well maybe some companies have tried a similar thing before Apple but not have had so much success because they implemented the features poorly).

Do you even understand wtf i mean when i say revolutionary? I'm not saying that every phone in the future is gonna be like the iPhone. I'm saying that the iPhone brings a whole new type of phone to the market.

IMHO apple did bring 5 new things compared to the closest pre-existing devices (touchscreen PDAphone/smartphones):

1) finger centric UI instead of stylus-centric...Well, as far as I know in the current iPhone, it is more "finger only" instead of "stylus centric":
Traditional touchscreens can be used with a stylus and (awkwardly) with fingers or basically anything (that do not have a point sharp enough to scratch you screen).
AFAIK iPhone screen can be used only with fingers or strange finger-emulating stylus (that defeat somewhat the stylus usefulness, as the iPhone ones are quite blunt and seems difficult to use for drawing or handwriting recognition). I like the new "finger only" concept introduced by Apple, but I would prefer a technology that would allow using both your fingers or a sharp stylus (with the hard iPhone like, not the traditional flexy touch screens). BTW, the much highlighted multitouch is imho quite secondary, a nice detail but one that I can easily live without...

2) more eyecandy in the UI.

3) large amount of internal flash, at the expense of an SD (or microSD) card slot.

4) Apple marketing (aka Steve Job's reality distortion field)

5) a more closed platform (initially fully closed, now partially open but still apple controlled: you will have to go to iTune to find Apps...or jailbreak your phone)

IMHO, only first point (finger centric UI) is really significant (and positive), but just not enough to call the device revolutionary. I like the eyecnady too, but this is normal evolution...
Regarding internal flash instead of SD slot, it's both good and bad: it is a lot of memory for a portable device, but nowadays, high-capacity SD card are quite cheap too, and you can carry many of them...
Point number four is just my tonge-in-cheak Apple anti-fanboyism ;-), I do not care about it so it is neither positive nor negative...
Point five is the big drawback of iPhone: Android seems the most open platform, but lack apps and has to prove it can gain marketshare. WinCE is more closed, but comes with a shitload of Apps (opensource/freeware/shareware/commercial) without central control.
iPhone is even more closed, has few apps, has proven it can gain user marketshare but still has to prove it can attract devellopers, and remain centrally controlled though iTune.
Personnaly I can live with that for an mp3 player (I have a nano), as there are iTune replacement that alow me to transfer my mp3 from linux.
For a PDAPhone wannabee (or even, killer), this is not acceptable, imho.
Probably the reason why I did not go for apple computers either: I am not ready to trade openness and apps for UI tweaks, good look, higher prices and coolness factor ;-p

Originally Posted by Skinny101

OK smart ass, tell me then. If you think it is no different to any other phone then why are so many companies trying to make cheap rip offs of it (well all cheap accept for the M8)? Theres gotta be something that makes it better than traditional mobile phone doesn't there

I'm not saying it's specs are that great, it's camera etc come below a lot of previous phones but, it has a touchscreen and a completely different UI to anything before it (well maybe some companies have tried a similar thing before Apple but not have had so much success because they implemented the features poorly).

Do you even understand wtf i mean when i say revolutionary? I'm not saying that every phone in the future is gonna be like the iPhone. I'm saying that the iPhone brings a whole new type of phone to the market.

that's exactly where you're wrong, everything iphone has is already seen on some other phone, except osx which was useless before this sdk

Yes, let's just all forget about the 3 things the iphone actually represents.
Firstly, it's a "phone". Some say this part isn't revolutionary, I can't disagree. What makes a phone function revolutionary? I have no idea. You can only do things like making a call and sms, iphone has the speachbubble layout for that which is something completely new and handy to use.

Secondly, it's an "ipod". I can't wait to hear about a smartphone which plays music and video on hvga with such ease and smoothness. Forget about things like coverart, those are unheard on a (pre-iphone)smartphone. They suck as photoviewer with only qvga.

Thirdly, it's an "internetcommunicator". Safari is surely one of the most comfortable mobile webbrowsers to use, compared to things like WAP or opera mini (too damn mini) anyway. The screenres and intuitive controls are helping here. There is no stylus to lose or bulky hardkeyboard or too-mini softkeyboard.

Fourth will eventually be the legal appstore. There is already an enourmous amount of webapps and illegal installer apps, so there seems to be enough programwriters out there. There are spreaded communities for different smartphones, there is one big community for the iphone.

Add all these up against past smartphones -> yes the iphone is a revolutionary device alright. I'm typing this very message on my itouch, no problem for it.
I never even mentioned the light/distance and accelerometer or multitouch in the above story mind you. Apple brought more than just eyecandy and propaganda with the iphone, it is a revolutionary device.

i don't see your point, i agree about the internet part, internet on the iphone is great but it's better on psp . cover art is a must on newer phones and almost all of them have that option, walkman players have a lot of extra features such as mood etc. so yeah, it's a good device with a great gui and it would be even better if it was made by some less monopolistic company and distributed by a less monopolistic carrier.