What exactly is APE?

Hi all,

Maybe this can help a lot of people out, those who do not know what APE is. There has been a lot of talk, especially on the Meizu BBS about support for APE file format, and with the new release of M6SL being able to support APE, it will make people wonder more of what it is.

Could anyone with knowledge of APE fill us in some details?

a) What is APE, and how is it different to say, MP3 or FLAC?
b) What are the advantages of having APE files?
c) What converter programs are there to convert APE? (I mean good converter programs).
d) Do all media player softwares play APE file format?

Thanks in advance.

See Monkey's Audio WIKI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey's_Audio

I did before, but it didn't answer my questions above in a simple manner.

It answers all your questions.....

a) "Monkey’s Audio (.ape) is a file format for audio data compression. Being a lossless compression format, Monkey's Audio does not remove information from the audio stream, as lossy compression formats such as MP3, AAC, and Vorbis do".

b) "The main advantage of using Monkey's Audio lies in a reduction of bandwidth and/or a reduction in storage requirements, but, in the case of Monkey's Audio, there is no sacrificing of the integrity of the audio source (as there would be with, for example, MP3). For example, a digital recording (such as a CD) encoded to Monkey's Audio can be decompressed into an identical copy of the audio data. Audio sources encoded to Monkey's Audio are typically reduced to about half of the original size".

c) "Monkey's Audio." (The Original Encoder) DOWNLOAD

d) "It is often too slow to decode on portable audio devices". "The decoder is problematic to implement on portable digital audio players. It suffers from relatively slow seeking, depending on the compression level chosen".

Thanks madman~

so APE is basically FLAC with bad implementation in portable devices? :s

To me, I think that APE is nothing more than the same exact concept of taking a WAV file and compressing it into an RAR or ZIP file. They compress a 30 Mb wav into a 3 Mb zip or rar, and you can decompress those back to the original 10 times bigger audio file, too.

Of course it's slow, it has to run all the file code through a reconstruction algorithm to recreate the original data without decompressing it into a quickly readable file that would take 10 times the space. At least, as far as I can tell, that's the explanation for APE.

I think adding APE is more of a gimmick thing, because the only place I have ever seen ape used was for complete lossless CD rips. Just the other day I saw an ape format rip of a 2 disk set that was still 939 Mb in size. I think with audio quality in an mp3 player compared to quality in a full sound system, ape is pretty unnecessary to add to an mp3 player. An mp3 player won't be playing quite the same high quality as a full blown sound system that can actually use completely lossless audio.

Anyone getting this?

I agree with DChronos, MP3 players cannot really playback the same quality the APE/FLAC file should. Not to mention too the earphones/headphones. Wonder how people will react to M6 adding APE...

here some facts about lossless audio codecs :
- they have all equal quality which is 100% of the original
- the differences in the resulting filesizes of the better codecs are small (<5%)
- CDs compress very differently ! the compression ratio varies between 30-80% with an average of 55% for pop music
- the top3 populars are :
1. Free Lossless Audio Codec FLAC (king of decoding and encoding speed)
2. Monkey's Audio APE (best compression)
3. OptimFrog OFR (hybrid : usable as lossless AND lossy codec by using additional correctional data (OFS/OFC))

Actually, as far as FLAC goes, I do hear a difference on the M6 through my headphones. The high and low ends of the sound spectrum aren't cut off as much as an mp3 and I can hear crystal clear sounds through flac that aren't there in the mp3 encoded at even 320 kbps.

But I'm sure APE is really for taking near exact audio quality and just compressing it, so it needs to be decompressed to play right. Flacs are still huge too, but that's because they aren't compressed much so there is little for the audio processor to do when playing flacs.

There is only one good use for using the M6 to play APE files, and really that's if you plug it into a sound system... which really is a feasible idea that people could use at parties or raves and stuff, if there's no computer and a good program to play music with.

APE isn't near exact audio quality, it is exact.

Audio is not as easy to compress as, say, a text file, so special lossless compressions algorithms (FLAC, APE, Apple Lossless, etc...) are created to perform an optimal compression for their complexity. Unless there is a great breakthrough, I doubt you will ever see better than an average of 50% compression ratio.

hmm thanks for the info people
Wasnt a big fan of FLAC(as the sound quality increase compred t a well encoded mp3 file/file size ratio is bad)
and APE seems to be an advanced kind of FLAC... not suitable at all for portable use

I disagree, somewhat. as I have exceptional high range hearing. I am one of two people I work with that can easily hear video monitors oscillate from 75 feet away. In fact, it's very bothersome to hear this, and is akin to water dripping on my forehead.

Most MP3s sound like SHIT to me. I can hear the temporal effects of the compression on anything below about 320kbs (even with the LAME encoder, which is suppose to be the best). Anything I compress I generally use OGG, as the temporal effects are not nearly as noticeable, at lower bitrates. A 224kbs ogg sounds just like a 320kps MP3 to my ears.

I've used APE files mostly when exchanging multitrack data with other musicians, as it yields the better compression, and shorter FTP transfers. It's probably not necessary for a player that supports FLAC to also support APE, but that's just my opinion. FLAC is here to stay, as is APE, I guess the more formats a player supports, the less transcoding we'll end up doing as a whole.

Someone mentioned that APE is essentially like ZIP compression......Hell NO! Run a zip compression on a WAV ripped from a CD, and you will do well to get 5&#37; compression. I've actually ended up with ZIPed WAV files that are BIGGER than the original WAV file.....and this is NOT uncommon. Try it. RAR might give better results, but probably not anywhere near that of FLAC or APE.

Originally Posted by Lexridge

I disagree, somewhat. as I have exceptional high range hearing. I am one of two people I work with that can easily hear video monitors oscillate from 75 feet away. In fact, it's very bothersome to hear this, and is akin to water dripping on my forehead.

I know what you mean! Thankfully my workplace is getting rid of CRTs bit by bit. Some monitors don't bother me that much, but some are more than I can stand for even 30 seconds!:eek:

I also have to agree on MP3 sounding worse than OGG, and on lossless being the way to go.

OK, then APE is like a wav compressed into a 7z file... since I just took a wav of 70Mb and compressed it to 52Mb with nothing special set. And that's what I keep getting. I also remember compressing many wavs way back before I had mp3 anything when I was messing with my dad's old windows 95 computer and using it to record... and I compressed the wavs it made by at least 50&#37;...

By oscillation of video monitors do you mean by any chance the super high pitch ringing sound that comes from TVs? I can hear that from anywhere within hearing distance as long as there isn't a solid wall around it... and my TV also has a problem where this ring gets louder and the only way to fix it is by smacking the top of it... Noone else can hear that ringing sound that I know of.

Originally Posted by DChronos

OK, then APE is like a wav compressed into a 7z file... since I just took a wav of 70Mb and compressed it to 52Mb with nothing special set. And that's what I keep getting. I also remember compressing many wavs way back before I had mp3 anything when I was messing with my dad's old windows 95 computer and using it to record... and I compressed the wavs it made by at least 50&#37;...

What you get for compression ratio has a fair amount to do with the content of the WAV file and not just the size. On average you will find that audio specific formats compress better than ZIP, 7z, RAR, etc... Plus they have the benefit of being designed to be played rather than being essentially compressed directories.

Originally Posted by DChronos

By oscillation of video monitors do you mean by any chance the super high pitch ringing sound that comes from TVs? I can hear that from anywhere within hearing distance as long as there isn't a solid wall around it... and my TV also has a problem where this ring gets louder and the only way to fix it is by smacking the top of it... Noone else can hear that ringing sound that I know of.

I know that's what I'm talking about! People sometimes look at me a little funny when I start whacking the side of a monitor, but sometimes it does help to get the noise level back in line. The best solution, though, remains replacing the monitor with one that doesn't sound as loud.

Along the same lines, a co-worker who didn't believe my hearing range was that good played a very high pitched recorded sound back without telling me, loudly! It sent me running out of the room in pain! Since then, he believes me.

Yes, I am referring to 15khz NTSC video monitors. I work for a CBS affiliate television station.

Actually, it is generally the capacitors that ring.. We call it shot-gunning the monitors....this means replacing all the caps in a monitor. Easy job actually......high frequency noise.......GONE! Caps are the weakest link in any electronics. I shit you not....we have replaced about 10,000 caps in Panasonic DVCPro machines over the last 5 years. Surface mount caps are a BITCH! Panasonic declined to help one bit! Bastards! We will never buy Panasonic shit again. I guess the point is moot now, we switched to all Mac based Final Cut Pro editing with JVC FireStore hard drive cameras. Nice shit man! Much cheaper and much more reliable.

Okay, now I'm really off topic...sorry.

Take a 16/24 bit recorder....and record anything you want. Silence, or the Arctic Monkeys. Set it for 30 seconds...... It does not matter whether you record silence or Pink Floyd live, your file will be the exact same size every time. The source material does not make ANY difference. The file will be the exact same size.

Now, convert both your silent recording and your Pink Floyd recording to Ogg or Mp3. Now, you will see the difference. The silent recording will be a very small MP3/OGG, while the Pink Floyd recording will be quite a bit larger. Wav does not work the same way.....it's bit for bit, even in silence. One second of silence takes as much space as one second of LOUD in a non compressed format.

MPEG video works much the same way. It predicts the motions of upcoming frames, and drops that data in favor of its prediction. That is why smearing is common in low bitrate MPEG videos.

I know alot of people would like to hear what an APE file sounds like and compare it to mp3. so, im going to upload a song with both formats. remember to download as soon as possible because they soon delete the file. its a zip file with both formats.

its an elvis song
link - Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!

i dont c the reason why i should sacrifice so much space. for what quality? its better i agree but does it worth it? i dont think so.
i have a 4gb meizu m6 and i need more space and i should put on APE files. u crazy?