Hissing with EP630 M6 vs. M3 question

Originally Posted by DaremoS

You mean that you know Sennheiser 450... a very old professional headphone?... and it's not near audiophile quality!!! ... :D:D:D:D:D

Do you know too Cresyn LMX-E630?...

What are for you audiophile quality ear(head)phones?

uh are you talking about the MX450? i had the MX500 and they were ok for buds. if not, let me know. cresyn looks like a set of canalphones, and the only canal phones i would consider audiophile quality are denon c700's.

i consider both my shure e4c and e500 audio quality phones.

regardless, the question at hand is the sensitivity. a couple db sensitivity makes all the difference.

Originally Posted by johnnyz86

uh are you talking about the MX450? i had the MX500 and they were ok for buds. if not, let me know. cresyn looks like a set of canalphones, and the only canal phones i would consider audiophile quality are denon c700's.

i consider both my shure e4c and e500 audio quality phones.

regardless, the question at hand is the sensitivity. a couple db sensitivity makes all the difference.

I am talking of a Sennheiser produced about 25 years ago... when this German brand were producing only products for professionals.
Concerning Korean Cresyn... if you are lucky and you can find it in your country... give it a try... is the kind of monitors earphones despite of be in-ear buds... that's only to increase isolation... Cresyn produce a wide range of delicate phones... of all prices.

I think he means HD450, good headphones.

After a lot of troubles I finally got the M3 now. And I have to say that there is absolutely no difference between the hiss there and with the M6. However I also got some kind of Sony in-ears for free (because it took so long to get it). I think they are Sony MDR-EX 082 or 85SL (I can't really tell because they only had some kind of OEM packaging with a sealed plastic bag. But these are the models the shop offers at his homepage).

While I think they sound a little "thin" compared to the Creative EP630, I can hear almost no hiss with them, although I think they also have an impedance of 16 Ohms. Now I wonder what else could be the reason for them. I also have to crank the volume up more with them. Maybe it is because they have this little hole in them? But could this really make the difference?

Now I wonder if I could also get this hiss-less sound with better quality earphones. Maybe with Westone UM1 that have 25 Ohms impedance? Or is it something else that makes the difference? I don't really want to do this by trial and error because it is so hard to return earphones...

Anyway now I also have to decide if I should sell the M3 or the M6. I kinda like them both. M3 is nicer to handle but the shorter battery life and longer startup time are not so nice...

Tobias

therobbot... Tobias...

You said that you are extremely sensitive in your ears "However my hearing is very good (I just took a hearing test and I can still hear the highest frequencies that you normally stop to hear at 25 or so)". I've read also that depending on the earphones you are using this varies. (25 what?... I really dont know) anyway...
Most of the users here, me among them, doesn't have this hissing sound in their players. Then is not a problem of the players, nor M6 nor M3, it's a problem of your extraordinary hearing capacity. We simply don't hear it... we hear normal range. Check this page: Frequency Range of Human Hearing

In this page it's shown that normally we can ear up to 20000hz in high frequency and from 15 to 20 in lower freq. A normal HiFi player states 20-20000 as the more suitable ranges to judge them.

A normal recording can go beyond this parameters, let's said 5 to 25000, all beyond range of 20-20000 is useless for a human ear, but is present in the recording. You will hear it... most of us, won't.

On the other hand, some players, a good one, will reproduce those signals, a bad one won't. You said that Cowon D2 doesn't show this hissing, then this player is not capable of reproduce it, maybe it's in the range of 20-18000 hz. which is not bad at all, the hissing should be between 18001-25000.

This not-so-wide range have nothing to do with bad sound quality, because this deals also with definition of signals and power in all the ranges, which makes them colourful, and in stereo equipments, with channel separation, which gives a more wide spectre to judge each signal (ie. instrument). Just to mention some aspects that have to do with sound quality.

Is my personal experience that USA, Korean and Japanese MP4 players doesn't put extra effort in sound, average sound can make happy 90% of users. I've been told that Cowon D2 sound great and I have no reason to not believe it, I have tested just one Korean player which is iRiver X20, and sound was average. I just don't know if this player is using a dedicated DAC for its sound, as many Chinese are. Meizu is using Philips and now Wolfson.

What I meant here is that hissing is not a failure of the player, maybe are signals out-of-the range included in the recording that Meizu player can reproduce while other not and that YOU can hear while WE others don't.

Finally, hissing can be a noise as result of a bad connection such us bad solder or other malfunctioning in the manufacture. If it were so then, and all the players has it, then is a failure, as it is the "stutter issue" that lots here have claimed for, but your are the only one that is claiming for a constant hiss. Maybe is a failure in just ONE player, that's not the case.

I believe that if M3 and M6 that you own are suffering the same, then you have to go for a more short range of player, because your hears are too sensitive, and Meizu players are showing you signals that annoys you.

All said all this being as much respectful I can be, and taking this as seriously as I can. No further intention...

I think the '25' referenced is age 25. There is a drop-off in hearing high freq as you age. For example, there was a bit of news lately about youth picking ringtones that were too high for the teachers to hear but students could.

Anyway, I had hoped that the M3 would be better than the M6 for the hissing issue in low impedance phones. Shure sends out a device to add impedance in the line to deal with things like that. That's why someone who listens to Ety's for example might hear hiss and someone who has LMX EP630 or Creative EP630s might not.

Here they say that the hissing is less on the m3:
hissing

Hi DaremoS,

I slightly disagree with you. The hissing is not something that the player reproduces but it PROduces it. It stays the same in volume no matter if the volume is set to 1 or to 40 and it is also there for a wav with silence (which has no frequencies at all except for 0). So it is really electronical noise and this is not something good even though I can accept that a company might find it acceptable if maybe 90% of their customers won't be able to hear it. Cowon on the other hand has a lot of market share among audiophiles so maybe they cannot accept this.

I can live with this for now. I don't hear it with about 90% of the music I listen to. And for the rest 10% I will someday buy a better player. The Meizu is still a really nice player, just not perfect.

Tobias

Maybe someone can check if that hiss present in M6, but not in my M3, is present in M6SL, which uses a different DAC.
Anyway... I repeat what I wrote first:

No audio player of such quality can have a noticeable hiss which spoil your listening pleasure... that's nightmare!!!

PD.: Market share means nothing that a good marketing campaign can't get. 90% of happy users is a good mark though.

EDIT.: Having my M3 switched ON and not playing anything I can see spectrum display constantly moving... maybe there is some signal that I can't hear.

I think the white noise is ear damage due to you listening to your Meizu too much at full blast :D

Hi again DaremoS,

I think it's a bit strange to say, it can't be true because it would be nightmare. I experience with three different players so I guess it's "by design". Count yourself lucky that it doesn't bother you. Maybe it's because of the headphones you use (I only hear it without having to listen to it with the EP630) or because of something else. Again: the Meizu is a good player but not perfect. I'd also say a player of this quality shouldn't clip on MP3s that play perfectly on other players. But it does sometimes.

Tobias

P.S: Actually, again, I don't think you can see noise I mean with the spectrum display since this only displays what it decodes. Electrical noise can't be seen there. Besides, the noise wouldn't be enough to drive one point of the display. It HAS really low volume.

Originally Posted by Moogle Stiltzkin

I think the white noise is ear damage due to you listening to your Meizu too much at full blast :D

:D Indeed it's a danger to listen at a very high volume... I do keep my Meizu in half the way of volume with this nice function which is "Restrict Volume" (set to 20).:D

I keep also this feature in other players I have... but I will have to change it as rockchip firmware have implemented Microsoft PlayFX and now I have it in my Teclast C260... sound is delivered at a noticeable higher volume than previously in what is call "automatic volume adjustment"...